Darn! I wrote a response but I’m new to this platform and I can’t find it anywhere. I meant for it to attach to the discussion about Sunday worship reconsideration. Hope you can find it!
I’ll try to reconstruct. I’ve been a high school, university and church choir director in over a dozen churches in maybe 10 different denominations since 1972, along with lots and lots of worship planning. I was a theology minor at Grinnell College and have continued to read widely in that and related fields. Thoughts:
1. Episcopal liturgy has drawn me in. I need more time to make sense of and absorb the Eucharist’s central role in the service.
2. In every other church I’ve been in, the sermon holds the top position in worship, followed by robust hymn singing. Communion fewer than 6 times a year.
3. The weakness in sermon leadership I’ve noted is heightened here by our Missioner’s preaching only once a month. Can growth occur this way? Does shared ministry have what takes to carry a church program?
4. Our beautiful, historic building’s needs for maintenance and utilities challenges us every day. I’m on a committee to raise $300,000+ for windows and tuck pointing.
5. Do we count bodies weekly to the detriment of mission? Jesus gave us a benchmark—where two or more are gathered.
6. I’m in a study group that I hope will lead me to being a preaching deacon. But I’m surprised by the lack of Biblical literacy (even with our Missioner). Does the Book of Common Prayer outrank the Bible?
7. I have the enthusiasm of the newly converted, which easily leads me into errors of judgement and tradition. I have lots of questions with few answers. Thanks for listening.
2. the Episcopal Church is (has been) the 'via media' - the middle way between Protestant and Catholic. Protestant churches tend to emphasize the Word (Scripture and preaching), and Catholic churches the sacrament (the Eucharist). The Episcopal Church liturgy endeavors to make both central: liturgy of the Word followed by liturgy of the sacrament (with 'half time' in between where we share the peace - and many churches make announcements)
3. this was my point in this blog post. I don't think we can survive on liturgy alone (as important as it is). I hope you'll consider my Substack publication 'Your Life with God' - starts in Feb. an attempt at 'whole life discipleship', which can be done online or within an already existing congregation.
4. exactly. buildings need maintenance. they are beautiful and we love them. and it's killing us just to keep them in working order. It's a conundrum.
5. Here's the thing - if we're lacking bodies, I think we have to wonder what our mission really *is*. People are attracted to things with energy and excitement - and which add meaning to their lives. We have to ask ourselves very seriously if our mission is really something that is giving us this result. and we have to ask ourselves seriously if our mission, deep down, is really 'not to die'.
6. an excellent question! short answer - no. long answer - yes, i think biblical literacy could be better in our church. Longest answer: much of the Book of Common Prayer comes directly from Scripture. I think we could make that more plain.
6a. As a paid subscriber, you are more than invited to my Wednesday sermon workshop! I taught preaching for 6 years, and have my own process called the Preaching Triangle. I do a little workshop of what I'm thinking about on Wednesdays, and you are invited to share what you're working on, too!
7. LOVE your enthusiasm! I don't sense any errors - or any more than we all have. I so appreciate the questions and comments. Thank you for being here.
I really resonate with this! My thoughts began to coalesce as the pandemic wore on and I saw how ill-equipped the church was to weather a season where we had to refrain from celebrating the Eucharist. It caused everything (and just about everyone) to short-circuit— folks were doing all sorts of things (some of which, though very well-meaning, lacked a sense of thoughtfulness or theological coherence) just in order to make the Eucharist happen, often at the expense of spending time connecting with people and engaging in the work of discipleship. I certainly believe that the Eucharist is the principal/central act of worship for the church. But the pandemic helped me ask: What does it look like for the Eucharist to be our principal act of worship? Is it based on how frequently we celebrate it? Or is it based on how we order our common life? Based on the rubrics’ assumption of it being celebrated on the Lord’s Day and other major feasts, it would seem that frequency has some role to play, but personally I believe it is possible to be a Eucharistically-centered community that doesn’t celebrate Communion every single week. (But that just might be a vestigial part of my former-Baptist coming through.) At any rate, this post has really got me thinking. Thank you!
I really appreciate your thoughts and perspective.
to respond to two of them...
1. I think the operative word is 'primary' act of worship. To me, this assumes a secondary (and tertiary, etc.). In other words, I don't think the Eucharist was ever meant to be the end all and be all of our life together in Christian community (just as the Last Supper - while certainly primary, is not the only important part of the life and ministry of Jesus). It just feels to me that many Episcopal congregations basically have the celebration of the Eucharist and ..... ? Maybe a Bible study (*maybe*). Maybe some outreach (*maybe*). How are we ordering our life of faith? What does it mean to have 'whole life discipleship?'
2. AMEN and YES to a Eucharistically-centered community that doesn't celebrate Eucharist every week. I serve a congregation two times a month - the other Sundays they have lay-led morning prayer. I think this is becoming more of the norm among congregations out of necessity (lack of access to priests).
and this goes back to 1. A Eucharistically-centered community could (I would say should) have a robust communal faith life that radiates out from the Eucharist. And to be frank - I think most congregations don't. Without the weekly celebration of the Eucharist, there's not much going on.
I think we spend a lot of time on the diocesan (and parochial) level trying to find a way to get priests to altars in an attempt to keep congregations from collapsing.
I also think there are other ways to support communities of disciples.
I really appreciate your framing of "primary" here. One of the things I've observed in Episcopal circles is just how much freight we expect the Eucharist to carry-- it starts to become our only place for prayer, for formation, for evangelism, for education, etc. etc. and I just don't think it was ever meant to be all of those things in the way that we are often trying (whether consciously or not) to force it to be.
You're also exactly right about the "getting priests to altars" thing. It's a current topic of consideration for us right now in AL as we reconfigure the support we provide for training bi-vocational clergy and lay leaders. I'm excited about what's taking shape. Thanks again for your reflections. I look forward to reading more!
I so appreciate how you detail your thoughts about the state of the church, many churches in fact. There are many things that seem to be keeping folks from attending worship these days. Mostly what I hear is that ‘love is lacking’ for neighbor… the Eucharist is a beautiful part of the spiritual life for me as well. I find that even in my own times of quiet and stillness communion with the Presence can occur. I wonder if we are missing opportunities to experience the presence because we think we need a sanctuary or the Eucharist or a priest / pastor to guide the steps..
Verily! My votes are for a shorter Eucharistic Prayer —like only a seasonal preface and epiclesis—and lay celebration. It takes very little training to stand at the altar and read a provided text; let ordination expertise be centered on scripture study and theology.
I can't go there with you. It's not about training.
as one of my seminary professors used to say - of course lay people can celebrate the Eucharist. But first they must be formed in the faith. then they must be upheld by the community of believers. then they must be sealed by the Holy Spirit.
I get it; that used to be me too, at least the ordination part. Then I did a bread and butter gig of youth ministry in a Congregational church, while in doctoral studies. The first time I saw a lay person celebrate I thought I’d fall over dead right then and there, but after a while it came to feel totally right to me. Jesus said, “YOU give them something to eat” to twelve unordained people, after all. But I hear you, I know I’m lonely in this view.
Darn! I wrote a response but I’m new to this platform and I can’t find it anywhere. I meant for it to attach to the discussion about Sunday worship reconsideration. Hope you can find it!
I just saw a statement from Substack that they lost data!! DARN. I really want to read it :)
I’ll try to reconstruct. I’ve been a high school, university and church choir director in over a dozen churches in maybe 10 different denominations since 1972, along with lots and lots of worship planning. I was a theology minor at Grinnell College and have continued to read widely in that and related fields. Thoughts:
1. Episcopal liturgy has drawn me in. I need more time to make sense of and absorb the Eucharist’s central role in the service.
2. In every other church I’ve been in, the sermon holds the top position in worship, followed by robust hymn singing. Communion fewer than 6 times a year.
3. The weakness in sermon leadership I’ve noted is heightened here by our Missioner’s preaching only once a month. Can growth occur this way? Does shared ministry have what takes to carry a church program?
4. Our beautiful, historic building’s needs for maintenance and utilities challenges us every day. I’m on a committee to raise $300,000+ for windows and tuck pointing.
5. Do we count bodies weekly to the detriment of mission? Jesus gave us a benchmark—where two or more are gathered.
6. I’m in a study group that I hope will lead me to being a preaching deacon. But I’m surprised by the lack of Biblical literacy (even with our Missioner). Does the Book of Common Prayer outrank the Bible?
7. I have the enthusiasm of the newly converted, which easily leads me into errors of judgement and tradition. I have lots of questions with few answers. Thanks for listening.
oh, thank you so much for this!!
I'll see if I can answer:
1. you'll love my blog tomorrow :)
2. the Episcopal Church is (has been) the 'via media' - the middle way between Protestant and Catholic. Protestant churches tend to emphasize the Word (Scripture and preaching), and Catholic churches the sacrament (the Eucharist). The Episcopal Church liturgy endeavors to make both central: liturgy of the Word followed by liturgy of the sacrament (with 'half time' in between where we share the peace - and many churches make announcements)
3. this was my point in this blog post. I don't think we can survive on liturgy alone (as important as it is). I hope you'll consider my Substack publication 'Your Life with God' - starts in Feb. an attempt at 'whole life discipleship', which can be done online or within an already existing congregation.
4. exactly. buildings need maintenance. they are beautiful and we love them. and it's killing us just to keep them in working order. It's a conundrum.
5. Here's the thing - if we're lacking bodies, I think we have to wonder what our mission really *is*. People are attracted to things with energy and excitement - and which add meaning to their lives. We have to ask ourselves very seriously if our mission is really something that is giving us this result. and we have to ask ourselves seriously if our mission, deep down, is really 'not to die'.
6. an excellent question! short answer - no. long answer - yes, i think biblical literacy could be better in our church. Longest answer: much of the Book of Common Prayer comes directly from Scripture. I think we could make that more plain.
6a. As a paid subscriber, you are more than invited to my Wednesday sermon workshop! I taught preaching for 6 years, and have my own process called the Preaching Triangle. I do a little workshop of what I'm thinking about on Wednesdays, and you are invited to share what you're working on, too!
7. LOVE your enthusiasm! I don't sense any errors - or any more than we all have. I so appreciate the questions and comments. Thank you for being here.
I have subscribed to “Your Life With God” - thank you for this opportunity.
I really resonate with this! My thoughts began to coalesce as the pandemic wore on and I saw how ill-equipped the church was to weather a season where we had to refrain from celebrating the Eucharist. It caused everything (and just about everyone) to short-circuit— folks were doing all sorts of things (some of which, though very well-meaning, lacked a sense of thoughtfulness or theological coherence) just in order to make the Eucharist happen, often at the expense of spending time connecting with people and engaging in the work of discipleship. I certainly believe that the Eucharist is the principal/central act of worship for the church. But the pandemic helped me ask: What does it look like for the Eucharist to be our principal act of worship? Is it based on how frequently we celebrate it? Or is it based on how we order our common life? Based on the rubrics’ assumption of it being celebrated on the Lord’s Day and other major feasts, it would seem that frequency has some role to play, but personally I believe it is possible to be a Eucharistically-centered community that doesn’t celebrate Communion every single week. (But that just might be a vestigial part of my former-Baptist coming through.) At any rate, this post has really got me thinking. Thank you!
thank you!
I really appreciate your thoughts and perspective.
to respond to two of them...
1. I think the operative word is 'primary' act of worship. To me, this assumes a secondary (and tertiary, etc.). In other words, I don't think the Eucharist was ever meant to be the end all and be all of our life together in Christian community (just as the Last Supper - while certainly primary, is not the only important part of the life and ministry of Jesus). It just feels to me that many Episcopal congregations basically have the celebration of the Eucharist and ..... ? Maybe a Bible study (*maybe*). Maybe some outreach (*maybe*). How are we ordering our life of faith? What does it mean to have 'whole life discipleship?'
2. AMEN and YES to a Eucharistically-centered community that doesn't celebrate Eucharist every week. I serve a congregation two times a month - the other Sundays they have lay-led morning prayer. I think this is becoming more of the norm among congregations out of necessity (lack of access to priests).
and this goes back to 1. A Eucharistically-centered community could (I would say should) have a robust communal faith life that radiates out from the Eucharist. And to be frank - I think most congregations don't. Without the weekly celebration of the Eucharist, there's not much going on.
I think we spend a lot of time on the diocesan (and parochial) level trying to find a way to get priests to altars in an attempt to keep congregations from collapsing.
I also think there are other ways to support communities of disciples.
Absolutely! Amen and amen.
I really appreciate your framing of "primary" here. One of the things I've observed in Episcopal circles is just how much freight we expect the Eucharist to carry-- it starts to become our only place for prayer, for formation, for evangelism, for education, etc. etc. and I just don't think it was ever meant to be all of those things in the way that we are often trying (whether consciously or not) to force it to be.
You're also exactly right about the "getting priests to altars" thing. It's a current topic of consideration for us right now in AL as we reconfigure the support we provide for training bi-vocational clergy and lay leaders. I'm excited about what's taking shape. Thanks again for your reflections. I look forward to reading more!
I so appreciate how you detail your thoughts about the state of the church, many churches in fact. There are many things that seem to be keeping folks from attending worship these days. Mostly what I hear is that ‘love is lacking’ for neighbor… the Eucharist is a beautiful part of the spiritual life for me as well. I find that even in my own times of quiet and stillness communion with the Presence can occur. I wonder if we are missing opportunities to experience the presence because we think we need a sanctuary or the Eucharist or a priest / pastor to guide the steps..
Verily! My votes are for a shorter Eucharistic Prayer —like only a seasonal preface and epiclesis—and lay celebration. It takes very little training to stand at the altar and read a provided text; let ordination expertise be centered on scripture study and theology.
I can't go there with you. It's not about training.
as one of my seminary professors used to say - of course lay people can celebrate the Eucharist. But first they must be formed in the faith. then they must be upheld by the community of believers. then they must be sealed by the Holy Spirit.
and that is the ordination process.
I'm still very much a sacramentalist and very much feel that sacraments are instituted by God and are about God's presence and power among us.
I want all the smells and bells. the longer the better. I'd do it in Latin if I could!
the mystery and the majesty and the transcendence of God.
I get it; that used to be me too, at least the ordination part. Then I did a bread and butter gig of youth ministry in a Congregational church, while in doctoral studies. The first time I saw a lay person celebrate I thought I’d fall over dead right then and there, but after a while it came to feel totally right to me. Jesus said, “YOU give them something to eat” to twelve unordained people, after all. But I hear you, I know I’m lonely in this view.
Thanks. Here’s my own recent take on this. https://open.substack.com/pub/patmasrev/p/a-refugia-not-a-bunker?r=43vcw&utm_medium=ios
Blessings on your new work!
thank you!! and thank you for you work, as well.